There are many moral reasons why Aragorn don't ask the Dead to come to Mordor but there's also a pretty practical one :
The Dead were cursed because they broke their oath to fight against Sauron. Asking them to fulfill their new oath by fighting against Sauron is a pretty double edged sword... Sauron who, by the way, is also called the Necromancer. Yeah, he is probably not that afraid of the army of the Dead.
(By the way, in the books Aragorn only uses the army against the Umbar pirates, and wisely don't bring them to Minas Tirith where the Nazguls are).
Also in the books Gimli says he doesn’t even know if the Dead’s weapons worked because the pirates “dared not withstand” them. That might not have worked on the orcs since they would be even more afraid of Sauron. The whole Ghostbustera extras annihilating everything is the moviemakers dumbing things down.
What, you haven't enjoyed seeing the exact same movie repeated five times, almost beat for beat? 😂😂
But I will cut a bitch if you don't agree that A New Hope, Empire (especially), and the Las Jedi are great movies, and Return of the Jedi has some decent moments. 🔪🔪🔪
I fuck with the original trilogy and love Return of the Jedi (even though that's when the cracks started showing).
I dig Rogue One, but otherwise I've found all the movies since 1999 (prequels and sequels) to be lacking. The animated series The Clone Wars is legit amazing, because it unfucked a lot of the narrative inconsistency in the prequels. But then, paradoxically, the most recent movies and shows feel even more illogical as a result.
I'd love to see a Star Wars series set 1,000 years in the past or the future -- anything to sever the connection to the Skywalker lineage.
I would argue that The Last Jedi (which literally sets out to upend every Star Wars trope) is better than Return, but the original three (and nostalgia) are of course the only reason anyone cares about Star Wars now. The other two newer movies (not Rogue One) are so bad it's unbelievable to me..🤔
The Triwizard Tournament is so stupid. Not only is it inordinately dangerous to the student participants, two thirds of it is not even a good spectator sport. The dragon one is the only cool one to watch. The other two, from the POV of spectators, are staring at the surface of the lake waiting for the athletes to surface, and staring at the outside of a hedge maze until they come out. It is *so dumb*.
And having just rewatched the Star Wars prequels (one of our kids was curious), I can safely say almost nothing in SW holds up to close scrutiny. 😆 But hey, it has its charismatic moments.
Re: Star Wars. I’ve read that when Empire was written and filmed, Leia was *not* the “other” Yoda spoke of. It was going to be Luke’s sister, but a new character. By the time they wrote ROTJ, they decided it would be confusing and less emotionally impactful to introduce a new long-lost sister, especially when they had a convenient female character already in place. Less need for backstory. To paraphrase Indiana Jones, they were making it up as they went.
For the longest time, I thought he was turning back time by reversing the spin of the earth, not that the earth reversed is spin because time was flowing backwards.
I can’t believe nobody has mentioned “Terminator” yet. The entire premise is a plot hole!
If the Terminator had succeeded, John Conner would never have existed. If John Conner never existed, how would the Machines know to send the Terminator back in time to kill his mother?
I never saw the Lord of the Rings movie, but in the book the Dead do not kill anyone—their weapon is fear, and Aragorn has them go out to the enemy ships. The sailors are terrified and abandon the ships. Taking the Dead to Minas Tirith would terrify Aragorn’s allies as much as his enemies.
The plot twists you mention from “The Goblet of Fire” and “The Lord of the Rings” came straight from the books. Maybe they’re silly, but hard to blame the movie for them.
Regarding the eagles flying thing, honestly I think people brought it up to Tolkien and he admitted he didn’t have a great answer for why the Eagles weren’t more commonly used.
But one thing you only notice with a close reading of the book, which is not there at all in the movie, is how sneaky they are being. They sneak out of Rivendell at dusk and only move at night for huge masses of the trip. That’s one reason they don’t even use horses. And the whole time Gollum is leading them they only move at night.
The movies make it look like a pleasant stroll in the sunshine.
"My Best Friend's Wedding" was my wife and my first date movie so will always hold a special place in my heart. I saw it was on nNetflix last year so we watched it. My wife had to stop watching at the email scene because the character's actions were so unforgivable and I couldn't argue.
Haha yes I think that's what the screenwriter was thinking. The Julia Roberts character is terrible -- the villain of the movie. But I still think it works in the end! 😂
Also, if the eagles had taken the ring directly, they would have been intercepted by the Nazgûl. The whole point of having Frodo go is that the dark Lord was on the alert for any direct attack.
1) The Lord of the Rings - I also asked why Gandalf didn't just carry Frodo to Mt Doom on the eagles; when he had the eagles rescue him from Orthanc, that way the ring wouldn't have had time to wear Frodo down, which it did. I understand why they didn't, because the story was about the journey itself.
2) The Lord of the Rings - Aragorn should have held them to their oaths until Sauron was defeated and the ring destroyed.
3) Independence Day - I believe the story was a modern take on HG Wells' "War of the Worlds" and the destruction of the Aliens due to the common cold; in this case, it was a computer virus instead of a cold.
I think that with Harry Potter you couldn't have Portkeys in Hogwarts? Not 100% sure. Still doesn't adequately explain the need for the TriWizard Tournament to get Harry off Hogwarts premises, since fourth years were also allowed to go into town but it's been a while since I read the books.
Yeah I think you're right. But I still say it would be much easier to overcome THAT magic (or as you say, grab Harry when he does into town) than counter act all the magic of the cup and the tournament. 😂
Yes, but they make it clear the lesser craft are dependent on the mother ship to fly, so how are they able to safely pilot back to Earth after destroying the mother ship (in Independence Day).
There are many moral reasons why Aragorn don't ask the Dead to come to Mordor but there's also a pretty practical one :
The Dead were cursed because they broke their oath to fight against Sauron. Asking them to fulfill their new oath by fighting against Sauron is a pretty double edged sword... Sauron who, by the way, is also called the Necromancer. Yeah, he is probably not that afraid of the army of the Dead.
(By the way, in the books Aragorn only uses the army against the Umbar pirates, and wisely don't bring them to Minas Tirith where the Nazguls are).
Now this is the kind of geekery I live for! 😍
Fair enough. But they still could have taken out Mordor's orcs and trolls. 😏
Also in the books Gimli says he doesn’t even know if the Dead’s weapons worked because the pirates “dared not withstand” them. That might not have worked on the orcs since they would be even more afraid of Sauron. The whole Ghostbustera extras annihilating everything is the moviemakers dumbing things down.
Yes but I actually think overall the movie Gimli is ever better than the books one. The humor (mostly!) works. "That still just counts as one!" 😂😂
Star Wars has been one massive plot hole since 1983. SMDH.
What, you haven't enjoyed seeing the exact same movie repeated five times, almost beat for beat? 😂😂
But I will cut a bitch if you don't agree that A New Hope, Empire (especially), and the Las Jedi are great movies, and Return of the Jedi has some decent moments. 🔪🔪🔪
I fuck with the original trilogy and love Return of the Jedi (even though that's when the cracks started showing).
I dig Rogue One, but otherwise I've found all the movies since 1999 (prequels and sequels) to be lacking. The animated series The Clone Wars is legit amazing, because it unfucked a lot of the narrative inconsistency in the prequels. But then, paradoxically, the most recent movies and shows feel even more illogical as a result.
I'd love to see a Star Wars series set 1,000 years in the past or the future -- anything to sever the connection to the Skywalker lineage.
I would argue that The Last Jedi (which literally sets out to upend every Star Wars trope) is better than Return, but the original three (and nostalgia) are of course the only reason anyone cares about Star Wars now. The other two newer movies (not Rogue One) are so bad it's unbelievable to me..🤔
If yer watching a movie called Superman you probably don't wanna think too much : )
Haha well, this is a good point! 😂
Agreed on all!
The Triwizard Tournament is so stupid. Not only is it inordinately dangerous to the student participants, two thirds of it is not even a good spectator sport. The dragon one is the only cool one to watch. The other two, from the POV of spectators, are staring at the surface of the lake waiting for the athletes to surface, and staring at the outside of a hedge maze until they come out. It is *so dumb*.
And having just rewatched the Star Wars prequels (one of our kids was curious), I can safely say almost nothing in SW holds up to close scrutiny. 😆 But hey, it has its charismatic moments.
Haha that's a good point, that even spectators lose out. That whole book/movies drives me CRAZY. 😂
Yeah, charisma goes a long way, doesn't it?
Re: Star Wars. I’ve read that when Empire was written and filmed, Leia was *not* the “other” Yoda spoke of. It was going to be Luke’s sister, but a new character. By the time they wrote ROTJ, they decided it would be confusing and less emotionally impactful to introduce a new long-lost sister, especially when they had a convenient female character already in place. Less need for backstory. To paraphrase Indiana Jones, they were making it up as they went.
That is fascinating! It's obvious they didn't know it.during Empire, but I had no idea they were thinking of introducing an entirely new character!
And in retrospect, it makes sense, Leia "hearing" Luke at the base of the Cloud City and making Chewy go back to save him.
(We're all making is up as we go along! 😂)
For the longest time, I thought he was turning back time by reversing the spin of the earth, not that the earth reversed is spin because time was flowing backwards.
I'm not sure anyone knows exactly what's going on. It's a "superpower," nuf said! 😂😂😂
I can’t believe nobody has mentioned “Terminator” yet. The entire premise is a plot hole!
If the Terminator had succeeded, John Conner would never have existed. If John Conner never existed, how would the Machines know to send the Terminator back in time to kill his mother?
Still, it’s one of my favorite movie franchises.
Time travel movies always hand wave that away. 😂😂😂
I never saw the Lord of the Rings movie, but in the book the Dead do not kill anyone—their weapon is fear, and Aragorn has them go out to the enemy ships. The sailors are terrified and abandon the ships. Taking the Dead to Minas Tirith would terrify Aragorn’s allies as much as his enemies.
Great detail! And how have you never seen the (excellent) movies?
Deliberately. I knew that modernism would creep in to the movies and I would not be able to unsee it.
(honestly, in some respects, the movies *improve* on the books. You may hate me now.
You can love the movies or think they are better. I just don’t want to see them.😊
Fair
😂😂😂 A noble choice.
The plot twists you mention from “The Goblet of Fire” and “The Lord of the Rings” came straight from the books. Maybe they’re silly, but hard to blame the movie for them.
True. I had the same thought about Lord of the Rings - I would have been great to have the ghosts clean up all of Middle Earth
Haha yeah. And create a mass transit system using the giant eagles. 😂
Sure but the story is still worth of discussion.
Regarding the eagles flying thing, honestly I think people brought it up to Tolkien and he admitted he didn’t have a great answer for why the Eagles weren’t more commonly used.
But one thing you only notice with a close reading of the book, which is not there at all in the movie, is how sneaky they are being. They sneak out of Rivendell at dusk and only move at night for huge masses of the trip. That’s one reason they don’t even use horses. And the whole time Gollum is leading them they only move at night.
The movies make it look like a pleasant stroll in the sunshine.
This is a good point. (But they do show SOME sneaking...)
"My Best Friend's Wedding" was my wife and my first date movie so will always hold a special place in my heart. I saw it was on nNetflix last year so we watched it. My wife had to stop watching at the email scene because the character's actions were so unforgivable and I couldn't argue.
Haha yes I think that's what the screenwriter was thinking. The Julia Roberts character is terrible -- the villain of the movie. But I still think it works in the end! 😂
Also, if the eagles had taken the ring directly, they would have been intercepted by the Nazgûl. The whole point of having Frodo go is that the dark Lord was on the alert for any direct attack.
That is an *excellent* point. Also, post-Borimar, makes sense why frodo (and Sam) needed to go alone.
1) The Lord of the Rings - I also asked why Gandalf didn't just carry Frodo to Mt Doom on the eagles; when he had the eagles rescue him from Orthanc, that way the ring wouldn't have had time to wear Frodo down, which it did. I understand why they didn't, because the story was about the journey itself.
2) The Lord of the Rings - Aragorn should have held them to their oaths until Sauron was defeated and the ring destroyed.
3) Independence Day - I believe the story was a modern take on HG Wells' "War of the Worlds" and the destruction of the Aliens due to the common cold; in this case, it was a computer virus instead of a cold.
Enjoyed the read Brent
Thank you! And that's a GREAT War of the World's reference. 😍
I think that with Harry Potter you couldn't have Portkeys in Hogwarts? Not 100% sure. Still doesn't adequately explain the need for the TriWizard Tournament to get Harry off Hogwarts premises, since fourth years were also allowed to go into town but it's been a while since I read the books.
Yeah I think you're right. But I still say it would be much easier to overcome THAT magic (or as you say, grab Harry when he does into town) than counter act all the magic of the cup and the tournament. 😂
True. It's a plothole for sure 😊
Such a great post, I love ALL of these movies, despite their, *ahem*, interesting plot choices. Cheers!
Yeah..me too! 😂😂
Yes, but they make it clear the lesser craft are dependent on the mother ship to fly, so how are they able to safely pilot back to Earth after destroying the mother ship (in Independence Day).
Haha good one.