I think this is also why I’m often uninterested in fight/battle scenes. Too often they’re just action for action’s sake—to be able to say something happened in a book, or to show off special effects and fight choreography in a film. And, in too many cases, it’s already clear who will win, and the outcome doesn’t surprise us. I only care about such scenes when the writers have done the story and character work beforehand, to the degree that we care about these characters and are genuinely concerned they might not achieve their goal, and might in fact suffer a terrible setback (or even get killed). (Shoutout to Lord of the Rings for having battle scenes I actually find riveting and moving!)
It feels like there are large groups of people who can appreciate these things -- great special effects, fight scenes, even quirky characters -- even if it has no connection to a story, and the outcome is incredibly obvious with zero surprises. And I confess I'm BAFFLED by this, because these things bore the hell out of me!
You're also 100% correct about LOTRs, which is perfect in every way. (Wish I could say the same thing about The Hobbit tho!)
Haha, yeah, I only saw the Hobbit movies once, which probably says something about how little they grabbed me.
I've seen the inverse: people saying they gave up on a show because the special effects were so cringe. And I completely don't get that as a priority. I will happily endure subpar special effects if I love the characters and want to see what happens.
I love it. The action choreography is peerless, and there’s a purity in the narrative simplicity plus a lot of imagination in the world-building. But it’s definitely the exception that proves the rule, haha.
For me, voice is paramount. I can actually tolerate a story that doesn't go anywhere much if the voice is entertaining enough. Of course, the greatest stories have voice, plot, and theme; they have depth and well-rounded characters and stakes. But I don't think everyone necessarily agrees. It seems like many people do go just for spectacle; they just want to see things blown up. Or in horror, they just want lots of gross-out gore.
I've discovered that my husband is a lot more tolerant of plot holes, contrivances, and deus ex machina than I am. If we watch a show together and I complain about something being unrealistic, he says, "It's just a show." He appreciates quality story-telling, but isn't completely turned off by sloppiness the way I am.
(As for your point about stakes and predictability: I've heard it said that one reason Game of Thrones did well was that the author wasn't afraid to kill off any character at any time.)
Yeah, I used to assume everyone was like me, but than I got confused when they reacted so well to things I hated. Now, of course, I see that everyone enjoys different things, including just spectacle. But like you, I think the BEST stories include voice, plot, theme, character, etc.
It's funny about "plot holes." I only care about them when I'm hating the project. If they get the emotional truth right, I usually don't care that much. I'm writing an article about exactly that right now, in fact.
Oh, also, for meaningless spectacle: CAR CHASES are a huge pet peeve of mine. Boooring as all get out, yet they are a movie staple, so I suppose everyone else must love them!
Agreed!
I think this is also why I’m often uninterested in fight/battle scenes. Too often they’re just action for action’s sake—to be able to say something happened in a book, or to show off special effects and fight choreography in a film. And, in too many cases, it’s already clear who will win, and the outcome doesn’t surprise us. I only care about such scenes when the writers have done the story and character work beforehand, to the degree that we care about these characters and are genuinely concerned they might not achieve their goal, and might in fact suffer a terrible setback (or even get killed). (Shoutout to Lord of the Rings for having battle scenes I actually find riveting and moving!)
yup yup yup!
It feels like there are large groups of people who can appreciate these things -- great special effects, fight scenes, even quirky characters -- even if it has no connection to a story, and the outcome is incredibly obvious with zero surprises. And I confess I'm BAFFLED by this, because these things bore the hell out of me!
You're also 100% correct about LOTRs, which is perfect in every way. (Wish I could say the same thing about The Hobbit tho!)
Haha, yeah, I only saw the Hobbit movies once, which probably says something about how little they grabbed me.
I've seen the inverse: people saying they gave up on a show because the special effects were so cringe. And I completely don't get that as a priority. I will happily endure subpar special effects if I love the characters and want to see what happens.
What do you all think of John Wick?
I haven't seen any of them yet! So on that I can't judge. :)
I love it. The action choreography is peerless, and there’s a purity in the narrative simplicity plus a lot of imagination in the world-building. But it’s definitely the exception that proves the rule, haha.
As a friend of mine once said of superhero movies, “When everything’s at stake, nothing is”
Extremely well-put. Couldn't agree more!
For me, voice is paramount. I can actually tolerate a story that doesn't go anywhere much if the voice is entertaining enough. Of course, the greatest stories have voice, plot, and theme; they have depth and well-rounded characters and stakes. But I don't think everyone necessarily agrees. It seems like many people do go just for spectacle; they just want to see things blown up. Or in horror, they just want lots of gross-out gore.
I've discovered that my husband is a lot more tolerant of plot holes, contrivances, and deus ex machina than I am. If we watch a show together and I complain about something being unrealistic, he says, "It's just a show." He appreciates quality story-telling, but isn't completely turned off by sloppiness the way I am.
(As for your point about stakes and predictability: I've heard it said that one reason Game of Thrones did well was that the author wasn't afraid to kill off any character at any time.)
Yeah, I used to assume everyone was like me, but than I got confused when they reacted so well to things I hated. Now, of course, I see that everyone enjoys different things, including just spectacle. But like you, I think the BEST stories include voice, plot, theme, character, etc.
It's funny about "plot holes." I only care about them when I'm hating the project. If they get the emotional truth right, I usually don't care that much. I'm writing an article about exactly that right now, in fact.
Oh, also, for meaningless spectacle: CAR CHASES are a huge pet peeve of mine. Boooring as all get out, yet they are a movie staple, so I suppose everyone else must love them!
I completely agree.