Eh, books and movies should be varied enough to tell all kinds of stories in all kinds of ways. The flip side of a gratuitous sex scene that is wedged into a story just to titillate is when an important union of characters is skipped over just because of prudish coyness. What happens in the bedroom can be an extremely important part of how characters' relationships work (or don't). Sex scenes should follow the rules of any other scene: be true to the characters, and advance the plot, and be *interesting* (as opposed to idealized or predictable). I suspect that the scenes people are bothered by fail on at least one of those counts.
I agree that relationships other than romances could use more exploration!
And as for cameras showing more of life than they used to: I really miss the days when characters vomited off-screen. Nowadays, shows are awash in graphic puke scenes that I could do without.
Oh, I completely agree. It *can* be a fantastic way to develop character and story. It just *hasn't* been in the United States. It's become rote and repetitive -- almost always the exact same thing, the exact same plot beats. Ironically, I think Spartacus did it pretty well.
Yeah, you're right about the vomiting thing too. That's definitely a thing lately.
Whoo, boy, is this ever on-topic for me. When I’m watching TV, I find myself muting (and even fast-forwarding) the scenes where it’s obvious the mics are placed so that two people kissing is the sloppiest, loudest sound possible. Stop it, already! Please!
And as for writing.... As the author of gay literature, my intention is to include no more and no less sex than needed to make it a realistic story. After all, good novels with straight characters often include sex, so why not gay ones?
It’s refreshing to hear that younger audiences/readers are tired of being told how and when they should get excited. That said, according to my former agent: “What sells is romance with steamy sex, and erotica. I can’t sell upscale work like yours.”
Sigh. Maybe one day these youngsters will rule the market?
Yeah, I winced when you wrote about that recently. Oy vey indeed. I frequently ask myself, "Has publishing (and Hollywood) always been this risk-averse? Have the stories they choose to tell always been so similar, running the gamut from A to B?" More than anything, I hate the idea that because XXX was successful, there must be a zillion more XXX's. Maybe it was successful because it was different! Grrrrr.
This Boomer agrees with you. I love story and read more than anyone else I know. In the last half century I’ve read 200-500 books every year so I look at this topic specifically in light of novels. Sex is amazing and exciting. Reading about it, not so much, no matter how well crafted the writing. What grabs me in a book the emotions, the feelings, a character experiences not the mechanics of what evoked them.
Reading this, I can't help but wonder what you think of the (now) current miniseries "Fellow Travelers"--which has a fair amount sex. I think the scenes are both sexy and do add to character development. But, I also don't agree with your assessment about most recent sex scenes being gratuitous.
The men are certainly handsome. I don't think gay sex scenes are nearly as shocking or subversive as she creators seem to think -- they seem very very trendy on cable and streaming. But in the end it all depends on the story. There have been so many projects with beautiful men -- Elite, Looking -- that I find deadly dull.
I've lately found, to my own shock, that while I love a good romance, and while I put healthy sex-positivity as one of my top values (and one I think my culture needs to acquire), I'm not actually all that into erotica or other "sex for sex's sake"—gratuitous sex, one might call it. I enjoy a slow burn, where the characters earn their steamy payoff after their long haul of sexual tension, more than I thought I did.
It ties into how someone once described the appeal of fanfiction, to a lot of us: we're not "sexualizing friendship," as critics often claim about steamy fanfic. We're friendship-izing sex: we're taking some well-established, already known and loved and fleshed-out characters, and making their relationship even better (in our opinion) with a sex scene. Which, since it isn't canon, can be ignored by anyone who doesn't want to see it. Win-win! (But the point is that the sex scene is *meaningful* to fans of the couple.)
And agreed: Good Luck to You, Leo Grande was delightful and fascinating! I was still thinking about it for days afterward.
It's an interesting topic, isn't it? And I truly think society is evolving. It's partly because what seems subversive and revolutionary 10 or 20 years ago, can now seem rote, cliche, or obligatory. And -- as one of the other commenters pointed out -- the way we consume media now might be making this more obvious.
Interesting re: fanfic. I confess this is waaaaaay outside my bailiwick (or interest), but when people say smart things like you often do, I think, "Interesting!" Yeah, I get there's something interesting going on (and it may or may not have to do with female sexuality, but I think that plays in there somewhere, just as porn does with male sexuality. [gender stereotype alert!])
I DO want more stuff about sex. Desperately! I just don't want the same 'ol, same 'ol, which is what I fear I'm going to get (and which I am getting!). Living outside of America makes it worse, since I see all this interesting stuff that I couldn't dare write about (because I don't really get it) but it seems really interesting and different, at least to me.
Exactly - the central problem is that studios are repackaging the same glossy, perfect sex scenes over and over, because it worked last time. Same way they keep remaking old hit movies or writing endless sequels to popular series, instead of taking a chance on something new and unusual.
I just realized my fanfic defense has an unfortunate counterargument in the form of Fifty Shades, which famously started life as Twilight fanfic, and which, as you say, is notably unsexy to a lot of us! (The film Secretary did that setup a zillion times better.) But fanfic does fascinate me. I've lurked in the fandom world for at least 20 years, mostly as a reader but occasionally as a writer, and it has been evolving along with the rest of society.
We all pretty much assumed, 20 years ago, that it was mostly straight women writing fanfic, though it was hard to get solid data, given the widespread anonymity. Recently, though, AO3 (Archive of Our Own, humongous fan-built fic site) did a demographics survey of its users, and found that while yes, the largest sector identified as cis women, that was only 54% of users. 5% were cis men, and the rest were nonbinary, trans, and gender-nonconforming. As for sexuality, only some 14% identified as straight, with all the various forms of non-straight making up the majority. So that puts the kibosh on the common impression that fanfic is just something for and by straight cis women! (We ought to also question whether something should be disparaged just because women and girls are into it...but that's another can of worms.) These days it seems fic is where people go to test out their non-mainstream ideas, which canon isn't giving them. Studios should take note!
Anyway - one show I think does sex in a more interesting and different way is Sex Education. Sure, the actors are all still better looking than the average person! But at least it shows the diversity and messiness and sometimes sheer disastrousness of sexual experiences, and with empathy for all involved. :)
Haha, I love it, you argue with yourself just like I do.
Nice link, I"m sure I'll use that at some point.
I just read an article that said, basically, the "default" for the studios (and publishing houses) is crap -- very mainstream, very cautious, obvious stuff -- but that every now and then, the stars align for bolder, more innovative stuff. Those periods never last long, but they do happen.
I think we're due for something like that when it comes to portrayals of sex. You can kinda feel it in the air.
I like to think those of us who argue with ourselves are doing the important work of modeling how to treat a topic fairly and not be too blindly attached to one point of view. :D But yes, when some fresher and more innovative piece of media achieves unexpected levels of popular adoration (like Red, White, and Royal Blue; or to some degree Our Flag Means Death), that's telling us the world is ready for changing the norms.
My take is that this response (Gen Z) is reflective of a saturation of sex in storytelling and a desire for intimacy - of all kinds, but especially platonic intimacy in friendships. Perhaps because the nature of consuming television shows and films has changed - binging several episodes at once, for example - the episodic fatigue of sex scenes more quickly hits a saturation point in a multi-episode sitting. It can begin to feel formulaic and predictable outside of the plot altogether, which underserves the stories being told.
When watching TV series with friends, they've joked that the network must be demanding sex scenes at specific intervals - down to the minute markers and durations between - because it begins to feel like a commercial break for sex instead of a relevant and realistic connection between characters. It can often feel like pandering; a few friends have gone as far to say it feels insulting to the audience's capacity for characters.
The sex scenes that do involve characters' motivations - or perhaps provide a resolution/challenge/conflict/crisis of them - and have context to the world within the show feel cohesive with the story. When they don't - the spirit of the story suffers. Sex is natural - so the telling of it should be, too.
Ultimately, I don't see the 'Gen Z response' as a sign of a transition to sex-averse audiences, but rather an opportunity to consider the motivation behind the scenes, their placement in the story, and the saturation of them when considering the formats and consumption patterns of modern-day media. Sex sells, but at what point is the audience overstocked? Do the scenes vary in intensity, purpose, etc.? What did we learn about the characters through the process? Does it standalone as a quality scene, or does it feel like filler? If we stack up all the sex scenes together for a single character, do they show a progression - or a mechanically olympic feat of sex?
I do think shows like Euphoria (which I happen to absolutely *hate*) are at least *trying* shake up the tropes and stereotypes. I think Sex Education also does this, except masterfully.
Oh, I love this! Yes yes yes! There is also a MASSIVE epidemic of loneliness (which I think is related to online culture and always *being* alone -- cyber friends are not the same as real friends). I think the hunger for connection is very very real, and that plays a role here.
But I think you're also right about how media are now consumed. The flaws and tropes are more obvious when you're marathoning. (But this does make me wonder why shows that are so unbelievably flawed, so incredibly unrealistic like, say, Riverdale, find such a big response with younger audiences. It's like they're *leaning in* to the flaws and stereotypes. But maybe I can't see what makes the show "work," I dunno.)
I would like to see more stories explore this hunger for connection. Even now, the "friend" tropes on TV and in the movies are just as strong as the "romance" tropes. But as they said, good writing is hard.
I am also surprised by shows like Riverdale, or Teen Wolf - even Elite. The shows become a caricature of themselves over the seasons, but people enjoy them (I don't personally, but to each their own). If it means something to people, and they enjoy it - it must be touching on something valuable to them. If I hazard a guess, I suppose some of it is because they blend so many genres into a easily digestible format that people enjoy it. Supernatural/school/mystery/coming of age/etc. One of my friends who does enjoy these shows likes to say something like "You can turn your brain off. It's like junk food, because its awful in substance but sweetly artificial enough to feel good." I can see what she's getting at, even if I would prefer different shows for myself.
The epidemic of loneliness is so true. I would go as far to say people are not just hungry but starved for intimacy. It's heartbreaking. My friends and I exchange hugs to say hello/goodbye often. I saw one of them for the first time in a long while the other day, and he broke down into tears after I gave him a hug. I worried something happened with his girlfriend, family, job, etc., but he said everything was fine - he just couldn't remember the last time he'd gotten a hug from a friend.
You're so right with the tropes of friendships in TV and movies. It can feel static and monolithic sometimes, so it's always fun to see those ideas mixed up to be more dynamic. I can only imagine the production process from writers to screen - the oversight must be maddening.
The "development" process can be a mixed bag: sometimes it's infuriating, and sometimes the suits and execs make good suggestions. It is not my experience that notes and Hollywood input is always bad.
That said, I think the networks, streamers, and studios are now EXTREMELY cautious. They wait the tried and true -- rip-offs, sequels, and reboots -- in a way that is almost laughable. Conversely, it something even vaguely similar to your project flops, that can have a HUGE impact on whether or not it gets greenlight. That part is absolutely crazy.
That's unfortunate to hear (about anything vaguely similar determining likelihood of greenlight), as there are so many variables beyond the manuscript or screenplay. And the reboots/rip-offs/sequels are funny to me too (in the laughable way you mentioned). The shark-themed horror genre was (and is) quite a trip; never in a million years did I think "Sharknado: Heart of Sharkness" would be real.
OMG, I was just watching the second season of And Just Like That last night -- the Sex In the City reboot -- and...we’ll...just like that, I was reaching for the remote so I could fast-forward. Uncomfortable!
Hard agree! I am longing for stories focussing on friendship, or the bond between siblings. You see flashes of it occasionally but it’s never really explored. These are interesting stories too!
I often find myself quite bored by sex scenes - why are they there? Surely it can’t be to titillate with the easy access to hardcore porn. Maybe some people have become so used to seeing graphic stuff it’s just wallpaper now?
I think maybe, like everything, the sex scenes started as something more interesting and subversive, and now they've become so so tired and cliche? It is a mystery to me, though.
I have been banging on about this for more than a decade now. I'm in my 50's and read and watch a LOT of YA stuff because it's far more story driven than a lot novels that are for adults... I'm not against sex/nudity.. I don't mind reading/watching a bit of porn, but it doesnt' really do much for me compared to the immersion in a story and the tensions between characters. I can remember the absolute joy in the 90's when I found things like the Valdemar series where same sex couples were normalised in a straight world and thinking that would be what reading was going to be like in the future. Little did I know that by the mid 2000's I'd be crying out for the rare story that wasn't ruined by gratuious sex, and at that, mostly written by women in the majority of gay male stories.
This is not to say that there haven't been some amazing non sexualised stories out there, just that you have to consume a huge amount of stuff to get to the stories..
Do you want me to comment on what appears to be the formulaic writing of upwards of 100 plus authors and script writers at the moment? That's another soap box. :)
Just to finish off, there is room for truth in movies and books about sex and how it's not all glamorous and 'hot'. How it is used by people in real life to inflict hurt or control people and just how subtle that can be - it just doesn't need to be overt.
What happened to gay fiction??? Where did it go? I too had such high hopes that didn't pan out, and I don't really understand it. (I have no problem with women writing M/M romance, and I'm sure many are "good" -- it just doesn't interest me.)
Maybe -- and I don't know if I agree with this or not -- most stuff is crap in all genres, so most of the gay stuff is crap too. But honestly, I read a ZILLION books too, and I can't remember the last time I read a gay book. I feel like I've given up on that niche, which makes me sad. (It also makes me very wary writing LGBTQ books myself. Is there an audience for the stuff I want to read and write?)
On a slightly related topic -- for story/plot reasons, I too read a lot of YA (although much less than I used to, it seems very formulaic to me too lately). And I don't really know what to think about fiction that eroticizes teenagers but is marketed to 20 and 30somethings.
Eh, books and movies should be varied enough to tell all kinds of stories in all kinds of ways. The flip side of a gratuitous sex scene that is wedged into a story just to titillate is when an important union of characters is skipped over just because of prudish coyness. What happens in the bedroom can be an extremely important part of how characters' relationships work (or don't). Sex scenes should follow the rules of any other scene: be true to the characters, and advance the plot, and be *interesting* (as opposed to idealized or predictable). I suspect that the scenes people are bothered by fail on at least one of those counts.
I agree that relationships other than romances could use more exploration!
And as for cameras showing more of life than they used to: I really miss the days when characters vomited off-screen. Nowadays, shows are awash in graphic puke scenes that I could do without.
Oh, I completely agree. It *can* be a fantastic way to develop character and story. It just *hasn't* been in the United States. It's become rote and repetitive -- almost always the exact same thing, the exact same plot beats. Ironically, I think Spartacus did it pretty well.
Yeah, you're right about the vomiting thing too. That's definitely a thing lately.
Whoo, boy, is this ever on-topic for me. When I’m watching TV, I find myself muting (and even fast-forwarding) the scenes where it’s obvious the mics are placed so that two people kissing is the sloppiest, loudest sound possible. Stop it, already! Please!
And as for writing.... As the author of gay literature, my intention is to include no more and no less sex than needed to make it a realistic story. After all, good novels with straight characters often include sex, so why not gay ones?
It’s refreshing to hear that younger audiences/readers are tired of being told how and when they should get excited. That said, according to my former agent: “What sells is romance with steamy sex, and erotica. I can’t sell upscale work like yours.”
Sigh. Maybe one day these youngsters will rule the market?
Yeah, I winced when you wrote about that recently. Oy vey indeed. I frequently ask myself, "Has publishing (and Hollywood) always been this risk-averse? Have the stories they choose to tell always been so similar, running the gamut from A to B?" More than anything, I hate the idea that because XXX was successful, there must be a zillion more XXX's. Maybe it was successful because it was different! Grrrrr.
This Boomer agrees with you. I love story and read more than anyone else I know. In the last half century I’ve read 200-500 books every year so I look at this topic specifically in light of novels. Sex is amazing and exciting. Reading about it, not so much, no matter how well crafted the writing. What grabs me in a book the emotions, the feelings, a character experiences not the mechanics of what evoked them.
When the sex scene, there's often a very clear sense in my mind, "Oh, okay, we're stopping the story for a bit so we can have a sex scene."
There is the occasional good sex scene. But like comedy is more difficult than drama, it's very hard to do.
Thanks!
Reading this, I can't help but wonder what you think of the (now) current miniseries "Fellow Travelers"--which has a fair amount sex. I think the scenes are both sexy and do add to character development. But, I also don't agree with your assessment about most recent sex scenes being gratuitous.
The men are certainly handsome. I don't think gay sex scenes are nearly as shocking or subversive as she creators seem to think -- they seem very very trendy on cable and streaming. But in the end it all depends on the story. There have been so many projects with beautiful men -- Elite, Looking -- that I find deadly dull.
I've never seen Elite. But I LOVED Looking.
Haha, hated it with the passion of a thousand suns. Art sure is subjective. Viva la difference! :-)
I've lately found, to my own shock, that while I love a good romance, and while I put healthy sex-positivity as one of my top values (and one I think my culture needs to acquire), I'm not actually all that into erotica or other "sex for sex's sake"—gratuitous sex, one might call it. I enjoy a slow burn, where the characters earn their steamy payoff after their long haul of sexual tension, more than I thought I did.
It ties into how someone once described the appeal of fanfiction, to a lot of us: we're not "sexualizing friendship," as critics often claim about steamy fanfic. We're friendship-izing sex: we're taking some well-established, already known and loved and fleshed-out characters, and making their relationship even better (in our opinion) with a sex scene. Which, since it isn't canon, can be ignored by anyone who doesn't want to see it. Win-win! (But the point is that the sex scene is *meaningful* to fans of the couple.)
And agreed: Good Luck to You, Leo Grande was delightful and fascinating! I was still thinking about it for days afterward.
It's an interesting topic, isn't it? And I truly think society is evolving. It's partly because what seems subversive and revolutionary 10 or 20 years ago, can now seem rote, cliche, or obligatory. And -- as one of the other commenters pointed out -- the way we consume media now might be making this more obvious.
Interesting re: fanfic. I confess this is waaaaaay outside my bailiwick (or interest), but when people say smart things like you often do, I think, "Interesting!" Yeah, I get there's something interesting going on (and it may or may not have to do with female sexuality, but I think that plays in there somewhere, just as porn does with male sexuality. [gender stereotype alert!])
I DO want more stuff about sex. Desperately! I just don't want the same 'ol, same 'ol, which is what I fear I'm going to get (and which I am getting!). Living outside of America makes it worse, since I see all this interesting stuff that I couldn't dare write about (because I don't really get it) but it seems really interesting and different, at least to me.
Exactly - the central problem is that studios are repackaging the same glossy, perfect sex scenes over and over, because it worked last time. Same way they keep remaking old hit movies or writing endless sequels to popular series, instead of taking a chance on something new and unusual.
I just realized my fanfic defense has an unfortunate counterargument in the form of Fifty Shades, which famously started life as Twilight fanfic, and which, as you say, is notably unsexy to a lot of us! (The film Secretary did that setup a zillion times better.) But fanfic does fascinate me. I've lurked in the fandom world for at least 20 years, mostly as a reader but occasionally as a writer, and it has been evolving along with the rest of society.
We all pretty much assumed, 20 years ago, that it was mostly straight women writing fanfic, though it was hard to get solid data, given the widespread anonymity. Recently, though, AO3 (Archive of Our Own, humongous fan-built fic site) did a demographics survey of its users, and found that while yes, the largest sector identified as cis women, that was only 54% of users. 5% were cis men, and the rest were nonbinary, trans, and gender-nonconforming. As for sexuality, only some 14% identified as straight, with all the various forms of non-straight making up the majority. So that puts the kibosh on the common impression that fanfic is just something for and by straight cis women! (We ought to also question whether something should be disparaged just because women and girls are into it...but that's another can of worms.) These days it seems fic is where people go to test out their non-mainstream ideas, which canon isn't giving them. Studios should take note!
The full survey results, for the curious: https://www.flowjournal.org/2023/02/fan-demographics-on-ao3/
Anyway - one show I think does sex in a more interesting and different way is Sex Education. Sure, the actors are all still better looking than the average person! But at least it shows the diversity and messiness and sometimes sheer disastrousness of sexual experiences, and with empathy for all involved. :)
Haha, I love it, you argue with yourself just like I do.
Nice link, I"m sure I'll use that at some point.
I just read an article that said, basically, the "default" for the studios (and publishing houses) is crap -- very mainstream, very cautious, obvious stuff -- but that every now and then, the stars align for bolder, more innovative stuff. Those periods never last long, but they do happen.
I think we're due for something like that when it comes to portrayals of sex. You can kinda feel it in the air.
I like to think those of us who argue with ourselves are doing the important work of modeling how to treat a topic fairly and not be too blindly attached to one point of view. :D But yes, when some fresher and more innovative piece of media achieves unexpected levels of popular adoration (like Red, White, and Royal Blue; or to some degree Our Flag Means Death), that's telling us the world is ready for changing the norms.
My take is that this response (Gen Z) is reflective of a saturation of sex in storytelling and a desire for intimacy - of all kinds, but especially platonic intimacy in friendships. Perhaps because the nature of consuming television shows and films has changed - binging several episodes at once, for example - the episodic fatigue of sex scenes more quickly hits a saturation point in a multi-episode sitting. It can begin to feel formulaic and predictable outside of the plot altogether, which underserves the stories being told.
When watching TV series with friends, they've joked that the network must be demanding sex scenes at specific intervals - down to the minute markers and durations between - because it begins to feel like a commercial break for sex instead of a relevant and realistic connection between characters. It can often feel like pandering; a few friends have gone as far to say it feels insulting to the audience's capacity for characters.
The sex scenes that do involve characters' motivations - or perhaps provide a resolution/challenge/conflict/crisis of them - and have context to the world within the show feel cohesive with the story. When they don't - the spirit of the story suffers. Sex is natural - so the telling of it should be, too.
Ultimately, I don't see the 'Gen Z response' as a sign of a transition to sex-averse audiences, but rather an opportunity to consider the motivation behind the scenes, their placement in the story, and the saturation of them when considering the formats and consumption patterns of modern-day media. Sex sells, but at what point is the audience overstocked? Do the scenes vary in intensity, purpose, etc.? What did we learn about the characters through the process? Does it standalone as a quality scene, or does it feel like filler? If we stack up all the sex scenes together for a single character, do they show a progression - or a mechanically olympic feat of sex?
I do think shows like Euphoria (which I happen to absolutely *hate*) are at least *trying* shake up the tropes and stereotypes. I think Sex Education also does this, except masterfully.
Completely agree on both counts! Sex Education was a breath of fresh air.
Oh, I love this! Yes yes yes! There is also a MASSIVE epidemic of loneliness (which I think is related to online culture and always *being* alone -- cyber friends are not the same as real friends). I think the hunger for connection is very very real, and that plays a role here.
But I think you're also right about how media are now consumed. The flaws and tropes are more obvious when you're marathoning. (But this does make me wonder why shows that are so unbelievably flawed, so incredibly unrealistic like, say, Riverdale, find such a big response with younger audiences. It's like they're *leaning in* to the flaws and stereotypes. But maybe I can't see what makes the show "work," I dunno.)
I would like to see more stories explore this hunger for connection. Even now, the "friend" tropes on TV and in the movies are just as strong as the "romance" tropes. But as they said, good writing is hard.
Great thoughts! Thanks for chiming in.
I am also surprised by shows like Riverdale, or Teen Wolf - even Elite. The shows become a caricature of themselves over the seasons, but people enjoy them (I don't personally, but to each their own). If it means something to people, and they enjoy it - it must be touching on something valuable to them. If I hazard a guess, I suppose some of it is because they blend so many genres into a easily digestible format that people enjoy it. Supernatural/school/mystery/coming of age/etc. One of my friends who does enjoy these shows likes to say something like "You can turn your brain off. It's like junk food, because its awful in substance but sweetly artificial enough to feel good." I can see what she's getting at, even if I would prefer different shows for myself.
The epidemic of loneliness is so true. I would go as far to say people are not just hungry but starved for intimacy. It's heartbreaking. My friends and I exchange hugs to say hello/goodbye often. I saw one of them for the first time in a long while the other day, and he broke down into tears after I gave him a hug. I worried something happened with his girlfriend, family, job, etc., but he said everything was fine - he just couldn't remember the last time he'd gotten a hug from a friend.
You're so right with the tropes of friendships in TV and movies. It can feel static and monolithic sometimes, so it's always fun to see those ideas mixed up to be more dynamic. I can only imagine the production process from writers to screen - the oversight must be maddening.
The "development" process can be a mixed bag: sometimes it's infuriating, and sometimes the suits and execs make good suggestions. It is not my experience that notes and Hollywood input is always bad.
That said, I think the networks, streamers, and studios are now EXTREMELY cautious. They wait the tried and true -- rip-offs, sequels, and reboots -- in a way that is almost laughable. Conversely, it something even vaguely similar to your project flops, that can have a HUGE impact on whether or not it gets greenlight. That part is absolutely crazy.
That's unfortunate to hear (about anything vaguely similar determining likelihood of greenlight), as there are so many variables beyond the manuscript or screenplay. And the reboots/rip-offs/sequels are funny to me too (in the laughable way you mentioned). The shark-themed horror genre was (and is) quite a trip; never in a million years did I think "Sharknado: Heart of Sharkness" would be real.
hahaha
OMG, I was just watching the second season of And Just Like That last night -- the Sex In the City reboot -- and...we’ll...just like that, I was reaching for the remote so I could fast-forward. Uncomfortable!
I enjoyed a few parts of the first season, but I found season two absolutely unwatchable. (I am a HUGE fan of the original series.)
I don't know how you screw up those characters and that setting, but they somehow managed it.
Hard agree! I am longing for stories focussing on friendship, or the bond between siblings. You see flashes of it occasionally but it’s never really explored. These are interesting stories too!
I often find myself quite bored by sex scenes - why are they there? Surely it can’t be to titillate with the easy access to hardcore porn. Maybe some people have become so used to seeing graphic stuff it’s just wallpaper now?
Thank you!
I think maybe, like everything, the sex scenes started as something more interesting and subversive, and now they've become so so tired and cliche? It is a mystery to me, though.
I have been banging on about this for more than a decade now. I'm in my 50's and read and watch a LOT of YA stuff because it's far more story driven than a lot novels that are for adults... I'm not against sex/nudity.. I don't mind reading/watching a bit of porn, but it doesnt' really do much for me compared to the immersion in a story and the tensions between characters. I can remember the absolute joy in the 90's when I found things like the Valdemar series where same sex couples were normalised in a straight world and thinking that would be what reading was going to be like in the future. Little did I know that by the mid 2000's I'd be crying out for the rare story that wasn't ruined by gratuious sex, and at that, mostly written by women in the majority of gay male stories.
This is not to say that there haven't been some amazing non sexualised stories out there, just that you have to consume a huge amount of stuff to get to the stories..
Do you want me to comment on what appears to be the formulaic writing of upwards of 100 plus authors and script writers at the moment? That's another soap box. :)
Just to finish off, there is room for truth in movies and books about sex and how it's not all glamorous and 'hot'. How it is used by people in real life to inflict hurt or control people and just how subtle that can be - it just doesn't need to be overt.
What happened to gay fiction??? Where did it go? I too had such high hopes that didn't pan out, and I don't really understand it. (I have no problem with women writing M/M romance, and I'm sure many are "good" -- it just doesn't interest me.)
Maybe -- and I don't know if I agree with this or not -- most stuff is crap in all genres, so most of the gay stuff is crap too. But honestly, I read a ZILLION books too, and I can't remember the last time I read a gay book. I feel like I've given up on that niche, which makes me sad. (It also makes me very wary writing LGBTQ books myself. Is there an audience for the stuff I want to read and write?)
On a slightly related topic -- for story/plot reasons, I too read a lot of YA (although much less than I used to, it seems very formulaic to me too lately). And I don't really know what to think about fiction that eroticizes teenagers but is marketed to 20 and 30somethings.
This "sex" topic is very complicated!
Thanks for chiming in...